Sweet merciful crap.
I mean... seriously. What the fuck is wrong with people? I don't get it. I mean, I guess I can understand people who like to be tied up, or peed on, but kids? What is that?
I'll tell you one thing - I'm a pretty liberal person, even when it comes to crime. I'm not saying people who deal coke or knock over liquor stores should be treated gently, but I'll rarely take a hard moral stance on it. And I certainly don't have a problem with pornography in general, though I do get uncomfortable with some kinds. But shit like this...
They should bury these people under the fucking jail. And then melt the keys into slag. It's a sickness, and it has no cure. I truly believe that. I don't think they should be allowed out ever again. It strikes a chord so deep within me that it actually brings bile to my throat.
I don't believe in the death penalty. Let me get that out in the open right away. But I do believe in life without parole, and I also believe that it's ridiculous that you have to kill people to receive it. There are crimes out there that are so awful, so heinous, that you should never see freedom ever again. Murder in cold blood is one. Things like this are another. It's fucked up that there are child rapists out there who have done time and been released back into the world. Some things are unforgivable. And I know this is probably contrary to some things I have thought or said in the past, but I can't help it.
Silliness will ensue later, but I had to get this off my chest.
8 comments:
That's just beyond comprehension. The really messed up part is that the perpetrators probably see the kids as goods to be sold, not people. Unfortunately, as you know, human life comes cheap in many areas of the world.
It's a difficult issue to be sure, but I seriously think the death penalty may be something to consider. These fucktards are taking away any chance those kids have for even a semblance of a normal life. At the end of the day, what's that worth?
That being said, I have but a couple questions:
How much for the little girl? How much for the women? Your women. I want to buy your women.
Thank you for saying "it has no cure" because it doesn't.
My ex-husband only did 2 years for what he did to my daughter and he did it in county jail.
Be safe...
Wow. Just wow. Stark reminder of the insidious nature of some people. Call me cynical and cold-hearted, but there are some sick, evil bastards in the world. Fuck the whole "everyone is basically good" bullshit. Unfortunately, that story is a reminder of that. Don't get me wrong - I've met more than my fair share of decent folks, and I appreciate that. But there are some truly bad seeds in this world, and it's not because they had a traumatic childhood.
On a separate note, I've read that it's possible that the brains of pedophiles and molesters (are they synonymous?) are wired differently than normal people (presumably non-pedophilic). I try to be circumspect in all things, but it's a hard pill to swallow to believe that an adult (man or woman) knowingly hurt a child because of different wiring. Gah. Makes the blood boil just thinking about it.
On the other hand, knowing that there is evil in the world makes me all the more thankful for the genuine decency of others. Sorry to get sappy.....
Daphne, I've heard that brain-wiring theory as well, not to mention the idea that we can chemically correct it. Which terrifies me, because... what if we're wrong? What if we think it's fixed and... it's not? That's too big a risk for me to take.
I confess, I don't believe that people are inherently good or evil. I'm a tabula rasa kind of guy. That said, I think that the majority of people are decent. But I think that the ones that are bad, are sometimes really bad.
Lora, that's horrific. You need a Batman in your neighborhood. I hope he got his ass kicked every single day while he was in the clink.
tk, I'm with you, something like this is never as simple as "good and evil." Although we are capable of uniquely advanced things like cars and soap and Swedish furniture, humans are still all basically animals, subject to certain drives and instincts that remain quite primitive. "Society" has been the great dampening influence to keep them supressed, but they are there. Just think back to the images we all saw coming out of New Orleans the day after Katrina, when the "rules" could no longer be enforced, and civility was replaced with survival and opportunism. Just underneath the surface of the civilized norm, the core animal drives are still there: hunger, territoriality, and sex.
I realize that this is a rather convoluted set-up, but bear with me.
As evolved animals, we all remember that basic drive to seek out a suitable mate; this is what the phenomena of dating and marriage and family are all about, and why these desires first begin to stir in us around puberty, more or less. Our animal instincts, the primitive parts of our brain, "remember" that a youthful partner (i.e., a partner who is strong and healthy and attractive and likely to survive the two decades necessary to care for children through adulthood) is more desirable. Nevermind that our artifical evolution through technology and medicine has eradicated most of the dangers that make this instinct necessary.
In other words, our inner caveman remembers that "youth is sexy." We learn this from the first time we steal a kiss behind the gym in junior high school, from when we ask the cheerleader to be our prom date, from our earliest sexual experimentations.
Every woman whose medicine cabinet, purse, and closet, is full of moisturizing skin lotions and make-up, designed to "fight the effects of aging," understands this.
Every guy who even so much as raises an eyebrow at the likes of Britney Spears or Christina Aguilera or any similar classic image of the "naughty Catholic School girl" in the little plaid skirt, pigtails, and push-up bra, understands this. These images are designed to remind us what it felt like when we began noticing our female friends, these girls, as they began to explore what it means to become a sexual creature. You don't have to admit it out loud, men; I'm a guy, it's okay, you understand that I understand.
The porn industry ABSOLUTELY understands this in no uncertain terms, just have a look. Sure, there is a market for the older "MILF" porn actress, but the name of the game, when it comes to what this purest of market-driven industries KNOWS about men's instincts, is the word "fresh."
The ubiquitous and more easily recognised term for it, in this context: "barely legal." That sound you hear right now is the trampling of the feet of every feminist coming at me like the bulls of Pamplona, who are reacting out of shock but not absorbing the simple, clinical truth of what I am saying. But, you men understand.
Now, what complicates things a little more is the artificial imposition of society's level of acceptance, which has not always been universal. In fact, we in America can't even decide on a common "age of consent" from one state to another. Societies in other periods of history had very different rules about age and sexuality. In ancient Greece and Rome, there was nothing abnormal about sexuality at a very young age, and sex between "adults" and what we would call "minors" was common and unremarkable, from their point of view. Over time, through the influence of religion and other belief systems, these practices changed for most of the world. However, it is still a phenomenon in some tribal communities even today, for children to be introduced to sexuality by the elders of the village. They would react to our horror with confusion, since to them, this is an educational and social preparation for adulthood. It is also economic, and political; children are paired to members of other families in arranged marriages to secure the general peace and prevent clan warfare.
I think, what goes wrong inside the heads of true pedophiles, is some kind of over-exaggeration of that suppressed, primitive instinct. Men (and I guess the occasional woman) who desire children sexually have something wrong with the mechanism that tells the rest of us where the practical, moral, and ethical "cut off point" is. I also believe they are "stuck" in the stage of emotional development that most of us grow out of by high school, as we continue to seek out a mate of our own age and interests, and I'd bet good money that their attempts to do so are usually unsuccessful. So they find a target for their primitive "affections" that is less likely to reject them, because to the child, the proper response to adult authority is obedience.
I have seen examples of kiddie porn first hand. It is vile and disturbing. I make absolutely no excuses for it, and I agree that perpetrators of it must be dealt with in a permanent way. But because I happen to be one of those guys that will admit that yes, the pre-packaged image of the young-looking girl in the naughty school outfit happens to be sexy, I have to endure all the jokes from my friends about my destinty with a rusty shank in prison. My attempts to have this conversation with them are always drowned out by the jokes about "cradle robbing" and such.
All I'm trying to say is, there must be something very profound just underneath the surface that can serve to explain the behavior of such people (not simply to say "they are evil" which to me is just far to convenient and dismissive), and it is worth the attempt to understand it in order to deal with it properly. The fact the news is reporting that this one so-called "ring" of pornographers comprises as many as 2,400 people in over 70 countries, suggests that this is not some off-the-radar abberation, but something more basic, and potentially, more common than we are currently willing to admit.
Votar, or whatever the hell you call yourself these days:
I think you're right... to a point. I agree that my post simplifies it, but it was posted as a visceral reaction, not a thoughtful one. I even agree with most of the historical argument that you posit, except for two teeny, tiny, wee little things:
1. Consent.
There's the bigger difference. And I lied, it's not teeny tiny - it's fucking tremendous. I'm the first one to agree that age of consent laws are haphazard and arbitrary at best. And in some ways, they're actually foolish. BUT, I do believe that young people sometimes lack the emotional and intellectual maturity to handle sex, particularly with someone much older than them. And it's different from person to person, sure.
I got away from my point there. Here it is: consent. The ancient Greeks and Romans indeed did "mate" or marry at much younger ages. And vast age differences between mates was frequently substantial. But consent is the kicker. Those were, for the most part (and excepting arranged marriages), consensual unions. Pedophiles don't care about consent. They are attracted to young people, and will get what they want either through force or coercion. They can say all they want that they had willing partners, but the truth is that willingness was not born out of the individual child's original desire, but by coercion on the part of the perpetrator.
2. The age factor. One important distinction when using the ancient times argument is the age issue. People lived substantially shorter lives back then. Dying at 35 was not uncommon, and in fact close to the norm. Therefore the life cycle is accelerated - growing up, marriage, child bearing, those are all condensed into a shorter life expectancy. Therefore, all of the things that we do at, say, 20-35, they would do at 12. Stands to reason. I'm oversimplifying a bit, but I think you get my point - people did "adult" things at a younger age then, because, put simply, they were adults at a younger age.
My final thought on the age factor is this: there is a massive difference between being feeling that twinge of attraction to the plaid-skirt-wearing contingent of teens and what not, to fucking 6 year olds. Six.Year.Olds. It is a giant chasm of difference. I don't know that it's true for all pedophiles, but I know that this is true of some of them: they enjoy the abuse. Not just the sex. Not just the attraction. Some of them do it because they enjoy the pain it causes. For fuck's sake, some of the porn that article referred to was with INFANTS. I'm pretty sure there was never a time in human history when that was acceptable.
But anyway. The issue is not simple. It is not easily addressed or solved. But until there's a way to truly fix it - I don't want those people to ever see daylight. It's my gut response, but it's there and it ain't changing right now.
But thanks for your thoughts - no issue is as cut and dried as I initially think it is, and while I don't agree with all points, as with all things, the truth perhaps lies somewhere in the middle.
ou may be surprised, after taking a second look, to discover that you do agree with all my points, and have in fact amplified rather than disputed them.
Fear not, my friend, we are on exactly the same page on this. There are simply an infinite number of facets to this issue, and it is worthwhile to explore as many of them as possible. Allow me to clarify a few things from the histories that I've studied:
Yes, young people almost always lack the emotional and intellectual maturity to handle sex these days, but according to some anthropologists, not quite for the reasons you might think. You see, while our life spans are much longer (thanks to the artificial evolution sustained through technology and medical sciences that I mentioned), it is our current relative state of health as a species that is causing our bodies to mature EARLIER, not later, than our ancestors. Girls are often starting to get their periods now at the age of 10 or less even, and scientists have discovered that this is because the girl's body is healthier (more viable) at that age than ever before in the past. I suspect the same may be true of boys, at least it makes sense that it should be. Thus, the opposite of your assertion (people did "adult" things at a younger age then) happens to be taking place: we as a species are now physically capable of procreation at a younger age than ever before, long before we are emotionally prepared for it, thanks to the health boon created by our efforts to artificially prolong our lives beyond what nature intended. We can see the results of this paradox all around us in the last few generations.
A minor point: from what I've learned, Greek and Roman pedophilia quite often did not have to involve consent. Remember, these were societies where slavery was as common an accepted institution as pet ownership is to us. There are layers of social relationships there that are often confused in our modern thinking of them. Slaves didn't always have it too good (but some are known to have actually led fairly comfortable lives), and the young objects of adult affection may not have enjoyed or understood the experience, but with regard to both (separate) phenomena, these institutions were accepted by society. That was my point.
And don't be too sure about the stuff regarding infants. Life meant a lot less back in the old days. Women, children, babies...the word "pillage" doesn't have the very negative connotation that it has for nothing. To the victor go the spoils, and I am confident that burning a church was the least dipicable thing the average victorious Mongol or Viking did.
Finally, yes, you and I agree: (modern) pedophiles do not seek consent. They take through coersion, and I believe as I mentioned, this is the result of a massive and abnormal inferiority complex. Adult women can fight back. Children are more easily manipulated.
Now, I have to go pick out what to wear at Anna Nicole's funeral.
Toodles!
I've been trying to get more info on the 600 Americans who accessed the kiddy porn. If I understand it correctly, this was just within a 24-hour time period. That is some sick craziness. Had they left the viewing go for a week, how many would they have identified? I wonder if the AG will ever release the names of the 600. Maybe he could be convinced to stick a few of those nasty bastards down in cellblock D, or whatever they call max-max at Cedar Junction these days. I'm sure some of those bastards already stuck in max-max would love to have a new wife who likes to do the kinky shit with kids.
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